Forum:Bonnie and Kim
How long? In Bonnie's article it is commented that it is uncertain how long Kim and Bon Bon have known each other. In Homecoming Upset, Ron stated that he and Bonnie have known each other K-12. Then certainly his Best Friend Since Pre-K, Kim has *known* Bonnie at least since Kindergarten. Now, the nature of their relationship is still unclear, even if my personal fanon would like for them to have been best friends as well who grew/split apart over something (like reimagining themselves for Middle School and the lowest links of the Food Chain), and also probably Kim would not unfriend Ron. But that's my speculation and probably a personal problem to boot ;P Still, if Ron knew Bonnie since K, *Kim* knew her too. Love Robin (talk) 17:19, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :On this I issue have many doubts. It is actually very common to know of a person, and not know any of their friends. Especially if you don't actually care much about the first person (as was clearly the case with Bonnie and Ron), and doubly so if you're traveling in different social circles in a school environment. And there are some points that work against Kim having known Bonnie so early. *Bonnie and Kim were never shown or mentioned having known each other that young. The earliest Bonnie was shown having known Kim was around middle school. Nothing solid before then. *It's not even stated definitively that Kim and Ron always went to the same schools, or when they became neighbors: only that they've been best friends so long. So we can't always assume they had friends or non-friends in common. The fact that they met in Pre-K could easily suggest that they were not neighbors then, or else they would have likely met before Pre-K. And there are several clues that suggest the Stoppables do not earn as much money as the Possibles (the single kid for so long, for starters), so the likelihood of Kim and Ron having consistently gone to the same schools and camps is not that high (Ron alone at Camp Wannaweep is a supremely good example of this. Kim was probably at space camp or Pixie Scouts, as her parents are actually shown to like her consistently), especially since we don't know when they actually became neighbors. If anything, it's far more likely that Kim and Bonnie would have always gone to the same schools and camps, both coming from financially secure three-kid families, and sharing interest in cheerleading, but we don't even know that for sure. *Ron has a fairly large amount of childhood fears based on memories that Kim was not present in. Which either means he hadn't met her, or more likely, she wasn't around for some reason. Possibly because they were either not neighbors yet, or she was somewhere else. But given how often they are around each other once they are neighbors, when given the chance, to me this suggests Kim would have been there for most of them, if either of them had a say in it. So there could easily be a period where they were best friends but not neighbors, and Ron suffered accordingly. :The only thing stated for sure is that Ron knew Bonnie in kindergarten. Which is not enough evidence to state for sure that Kim knew Bonnie then. There is nothing that suggests Kim and Bonnie were ever eager to be around or learn more about each other. Kim didn't know about Bonnie's 12 years of ballet until Bonnie told her. Bonnie thought nothing of giving Kim a hard time, despite the fact that Kim having an off day could have easily meant the end of the world as they knew it. Kim didn't meet Bonnie's sisters until she was in Bonnie's house, and I imagine it was the same for Bonnie and the twins until she was in Kim's house. :For Kim and Bonnie to have so much in common, and yet for them to know so little about each other's hobbies and personal lives, to me suggests they were certainly never close, and possibly didn't know each other as long as Ron knew Bonnie. Would Kim have really have had to question what Bonnie's issues were, in general or with her, if that were the case? The meeting with Connie and Lonnie in Bonding wouldn't have been such an eye-opener, plus she probably would have met them earlier. But as it was, even Ron didn't know that, and he definitely did know Bonnie that long. In other words, even if they knew Bonnie, they didn't really know her. But Kim more so that Ron, I suspect. Which could easily come from all three not having always been together in school. - Dap00 23:31, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :::Keep in mind we did not find out about Ron and Bonnie until almost the end of S4, and in a line which was almost a throwaway. :::The key is that Ron and Kim have been "Best Friends Since Pre-K", which Ron *constantly* mentions, and in a tone with capitalize each word and underscores that Ron-at-Kim's-hip has been since then. We may not know the nature or depth of Kim and Bonnie, but there literally is *no way* they did not know each other. :::Many of the issues with talking about the past of any of the KP characters is most of it was made up on demand for episodes as they came down the pike. There was very little in the way of foreshadowing or fore-outlining as done in decent novels and fics. Con and Lon were not thrown at us until S3; well that's just a matter of knowing someone at school but not in their homelife, plus *in my head*, Bonnie doesn't talk about her embarressing and vicious home life as it would tarnish and diminish her facade of "deserves everything". :::Also recall that we went the entire series shy the finale to find out Kim and Ron live next door, and even at *that* it was something *we the audience* had to catch. In fact, I think I may have been the first to ever notice. :::Fact from the Show: Ron and Kim have been unseparable since Pre-K :::Fact from the Show: Ron and Bonnie knew each other since K and every year since. :::Conclusion: Kim and Bonnie knew of each other at least as long as they've known Ron. :::Love Robin (talk) 01:21, May 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::Okay, I did find it oddly convenient that Bonnie was able to obtain a homevideo of Kim fudging that high note so easily, almost like she popped it in every weekend and watched with a bowl of popcorn. Not sure how she would have gotten that... unless Bonnie's mother was there to tape it because Bonnie was performing, too. But even that would only suggest they knew each other as kids some time well after Pre-K, which I don't doubt. I think that's as close to actual proof as we're getting in canon. ::::And we didn't know for sure that Ron lived next door until S4, but in my mind, given how often he was in her house, so comfortable with her family, and that he only had a scooter that barely went anywhere in any real time, he always had to live really close. Like walking distance, since Kim and Monique have actually outpaced the scooter while walking. And there are a couple of clues in Bad Boy that practically suggest spitting distance between them, or at least the same street: ::::*Ron was at Kim's house, watching Agony County at night. I assume he wasn't going to sleep over after, especially not after that awkward conversation and Kim's dad overhead them talking about bad boys. But I also assume he wasn't worried about having to ride his scooter home after dark, either. ::::*Kim was in her bedroom when she heard Ron scream in his living room, even with her window shut, which put his house in easy hearing distance of hers. Seconds later, conveniently enough, Ron presumably does walk to her house and appears at her window. Which doesn't confirm next door, but at least hints the distance was pretty much nothing, since Ron also needed time to haul himself up to Kim's window from the outside. But it does imply that Ron could go from his house directly to Kim's room in seconds, without going through any doors first. Uh, I assume Kim's dad didn't know that little factoid... - Dap00 04:46, May 22, 2013 (UTC) :Okay, I will add my two cents to this. :First, a caveat. What exactly is meant by "known each other"? Is it enough to say that you know a person when you can recognize them and associate them with their name? Do you have to know more than that? Do you have to know their parents and/or siblings? Do you have to know their other friends and favorite activities? This isn't a simple question? :Now, assuming the lowest required level to say that you know someone, I agree with LR, but for a reason that hasn't been stated yet. Every indication is that Kim and Ron's class is around 100 students. Many of the schools around where I live are around that size. In fact, my graduating class was 92 students. Many of these school systems have two elementary schools, a single middle school/junior high, and a single high school. With that size of school it is pretty much assured that everyone knows everyone by their second year of middle school and that you know everyone that you went to elementary school with. :Of course, this isn't proof that Bonnie and Kim had to know each other in elementary school. Especially, if, as Dap00 pointed out, the Stoppables and Possibles didn't live near each other when Kim and Ron were small. Which I have to agree with him it is extremely unlikely, to the point of pretty much impossible, that they lived next door to each other prior to Pre-K. The fact of where they live being important is because many times elementary schools are split by geographic location, to allow for smaller kids to walk to their school. Thus, it is possible that Kim and Ron didn't attend the same elementary school. However, I find this to be extremely unlikely. If they had attended different elementary schools then it is especially hard to believe that they were best friends during this time period, which has been stated to be true. :Therefore, if Kim and Ron attended the same elementary school, as there is ample evidence to suggest and Ron and Bonnie knew each other since Kindergarten, then it is highly likely that Kim and Bonnie attended the same elementary school as well. Which means that it is extremely likely that Kim and Bonnie could recognize each other and associate them with their names, IE they knew each other. :At least that is my take on it approaching the situation from a school size perspective. :Mknopp (talk) 12:19, May 22, 2013 (UTC) ::My original point was simply that we can't state for sure that Bonnie and Kim knew each other in/since kindergarten, for various reasons. I'm willing to accept that Bonnie likely knew Kim before whatever age Kim was when her voice cracked. And I'll agree it seems unlikely that Bonnie could meet Ron without having met Kim soon after. But then we don't even really know what circumstances Bonnie met Ron under in the first place. And, there's no concrete point in canon that firmly indicates when Bonnie met Kim. All we really have is Ron saying he knew Bonnie since kindergarten. And I have to say I thought it odd he left Kim out of that statement, all things considered. Which could mean nothing or everything. But I do still think that Bonnie getting that video of Kim is a better reference point for how long they've known each other than Ron's statement, if only because Ron's statement doesn't specifically include Kim when it easily could and arguably should have. - Dap00 17:32, May 22, 2013 (UTC) :::Very valid point. We are going through a lot of mental exercise to try and determine a single word. You are most definitely correct that there is no canonical proof that Kim and Bonnie have known each other since Kindergarten. Perhaps it should simply be stated that since Bonnie has known Ron since Kindergarten that it is highly probable that Bonnie and Kim have known each for as long. :::Thus, no definite statements, which we cannot make, but does mention the overwhelming amount of evidence pointing toward such. :::Thoughts? :::Mknopp (talk) 17:44, May 22, 2013 (UTC) :::::That's an acceptable compromise. :::::Love Robin (talk) 22:45, May 22, 2013 (UTC)